My GMC ate my 4L80- any suggestions???

Discussion in 'General Tow Rig Discussion' started by 2000GMC, Mar 11, 2005.

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  1. BadDog

    BadDog TRC Staff Staff Member

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    You've got it backwards. I don't defend it because it's what I have, I have it because it's what I want and feel is the best for my needs. Much the same reason you chose to purchase and defend a manual I would expect. The only way your statement would make sense is if we had no options about what we bought. Maybe true if you enherit it or just take what you can afford I guess, but not generally true of any of us I think...

    I speak up because I feel there are too many people making broad claims about the "strength of this" or the "weakness of that" based on flawed logic or incomplete data. But I'm always ready to be proven wrong and change my mind, but that won't happen as a result of specious agreements and empty statements devoid of facts.

    And your the one making assertions that what you own/want is the "best". I'm just saying that we do hear about failures with manuals all the time. Or at least I do. And I agree that some are more failure prone than others, but that's true about manuals and autos. The Dodge autos, Fords of years past, the 700R4, and so on have been known for problems. So have the Getrags, NV4500, and a host of other manual transmissions.

    And you claim to have never seen an auto outlast a clutch in a manual.? I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Obviously your experience has been very different from mine. I've seen clutches/plates that failed well under 100k without obvious/major abuse. And I've seen autos last well over 300k without so much as a filter change. My neighbors Dodge/CTD that I've mentioned before is an example. No bombing at all and he had already lost a clutch by the time he got where my Allison is now. And this guy knows how to drive manuals, or at least seems to. He's older than I am and from talking to him, it sounds like he's been driving manual trucks most of his life. Of course that does not mean he's not been doing things wrong the whole time, but it does go to saying he is not a newbie and he has stated he didn't have problems with the other trucks. And that does not even address things like the "dual mass" problems and such. So, that statement of yours really makes no sense to me.

    All in all I would say you do hear about problems with autos more often, but is that increased frequency about in line with the much higher percentage of autos on the road? I really don't think it is very far out of line if any. I wonder what the actual percentage of failure per unit of sale would be? Not sure…

    In any case, I understand your decision to choose a manual and I don't fault it one bit. But I also don't think it automatically gives you a better chance at a dependable transmission than you would have gotten with a "good auto". Of course (IMO), your decision to go with a CTD means you really didn't have an option for a "good" auto unless you wanted to upgrade it to an ATS or something. And my GM/DMax choice meant I didn't have an option for a manual without the same prospects for upgrading the wheel/clutch/plate. Such is life, but you simply can't make those broad sweeping statements of "fact" which are really nothing more than "informed opinion" (which as I've argued, I think is really more like "misinformed opinion" in this case) without expecting to be challenged.

    The best way to make a point and convince someone of your accuracy is to provide hard fact, not opinion masquerading as fact. Of course, most of my post here is also opinion/observation rather than hard fact, but then again I’m not trying to convince you of anything (not that I'm saying you are trying to convince anyone either). Rather I'm just balancing your statements in the most direct manner I can. I'm too lazy and lack the motivation to do the research and provide a real argument/debate…
     
    BadDog, Mar 13, 2005
    #21
  2. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

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    You have seen things differently than most folks. Our '98 C30 with a Vortec 454/NV4500 is having clutch problems with only 78K original miles. :rolleyes: My "weak" 47RE easily outlasted that clutch with 108K and no signs of failure ahead, that goes for my "weak" original Th700R4 in my K5 too. My grandpa's PSD/E40D outlasted that clutch more than three times over, with 258K(and still counting).

    In my F600 Ford service truck with a ZF 5spd with a "measily" 370 V8, the clutch failed at 160K with mostly freeway driving and a constant 10,500K load. I've seen numerous autos pass that without problems what so ever.

    Manuals are not so reliable as some think.

    But hey, call me lucky....I've had perfect luck with all my so called "weak" components from the vehicles I have been around, especially 700's and 10b's. Not to mention the trouble we have had with our manual vehicles.
     
    RJF's Red Cummins, Mar 13, 2005
    #22
  3. Tim

    Tim Guest

    Well, y'all have your experiences, and I have mine. Like I said, I've never seen an auto outlast even a clutch.

    I drive my DD like a stolen vehicle and it's got 115k on the stock clutch, with 1/2 of that with me at the controls.

    I suspect the majority of the bad wrap autos get nowadays is because there are so many of them on the road, however...I don't drive a manual because I think autos are unreliable. I drive a manual because it's what I prefer to drive, just as most of y'all prefer to drive an auto. If I wanted an auto, I'd have ordered one, I got a Laramie with practically every other option...that was just one option that I didn't want.

    I guess we can argue this until we're blue in the face and there are few facts to be extracted in this conversation. This is America and lots of men are in the ground to make sure we have the right to choose. I will choose a manual every time for a DD/tow rig because it's what I prefer to drive. That said, I personally believe a manual is far more reliable than any automatic, to the tune of at least 2x as reliable. There are those out there that really believe that Japanese crap boxes are "reliable" as well though, so I guess it's whatever you believe in....

    If I wanted proven reliability I probably would have chosen a Chevy or GMC with a Duramax/Allison right now. It's about the only truck with a proven record on the market right now. GM manuals have issues, Ford has engine problems, everyone knows except Bobby that Dodge autos are crap, and the Dodge manual is new and unproven (I waited a month too long, too bad I didn't get the NV5600).

    Either way reliabilty didn't factor into my decision. I love driving my pickups and when they break, I repair them. I guess I really wouldn't care if I had to shell out the cash for a BOMBed automatic in a truck that was paid for if I had the $$$$, but I'd be bored driving it and I'd end up selling it, so the choice was clear for me.

    My only beef with the manuals offered in the current pickups is that I'd like to see anywhere from 7-9 speed transmissions offered with .5:1 OD ratios.
     
    Tim, Mar 14, 2005
    #23
  4. 2000GMC

    2000GMC Member

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    I appreciate all the help guys. Boy am i glad i got the email to join this site. Keep up the good work this site is aweome. Anyways i suppose i should have mentioned the truck is not a diesel. It's a 2000 4x4 ext cab long box. drw with a 350 and the 4l80e. I know how trans are, trust me i've replaced a bunch of them. My 88 k5 ate about 1 per year for 4 years, plus i through junkyard trannies in there etc. My 91 went through 2 in 3 years and had it rebuilt both times. The 91 was more often than not my little red convertible as i called it. my 88 had a 4 inch and was a trail rig so i understood that. my 89 1/2 ton burb bought new and owned for 4 years got up to 110k and i sold it because I new the 700 gets weak, plus i work my trucks pretty hard. then bought my 92 k5 did the same no problem. got rid of it at 90k b4 problems could begin. Then my 96 tahoe went for 120k from new, no problems. In 99 i got a good deal on anothe 1/2 burb with 12k on it and drove it to 160k in 2 1/2 years, it had some computer problem making it shift funny with the a/c on in the summer but my tranny guy fixed it for around 300. Then i bought the 02 and took on more work so i needed to be able to deliver more without buying a box van or something so i bought the dually. Figured it would tow my boat better anyways plus it was a good deal. Now i'm not one of those catalog talkers that reads everything just to repeat it and sound smart, but i had done a lot of research when i found this truck and figured it to be a good truck that wouldn't give me to many headaches for 2 or 3 years, thats why i didn't opt for the 1800 hundo on top of the price of the truck. This trans should not have broke an it pisses me off and dissapoints me in gm. I've only bought gm's, always now i have to question that. After all the money i've spent on gms, and i dint include my 87 buick estate wagon or any of my k5s or my 88 caprice. I dont want to switch horses midstream but maybe this horse can't handle me anymore.:mad:
     
    2000GMC, Mar 14, 2005
    #24
  5. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

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    I actually know information about them and own one unlike you and don't believe every story I hear on the internet. If they were such "crap" they wouldn't even make it off the dealer lot. The percentage of failures you hear of on the internet is not that much when you factor in the total amount of the same trucks that are out there on the roads everyday. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I don't believe they are great trannies but I have had fine luck with mine and pretty much everyone that I know haven't had a problem with theirs either, under stock conditions. Granted, it's not an Allison but it's not a pile of crap either because they get the job done in most cases.
     
    RJF's Red Cummins, Mar 14, 2005
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  6. BadDog

    BadDog TRC Staff Staff Member

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    Sorry 2000, we kinda got carried away. :eek:

    Back to my original reply, the 4L80E is a brutally strong tranny that rarely gives problems in my experience. If you have the cash and want to be "sure" (within a reasonable margine) go get it rebuilt by someone like ATS to be bullet proof. Or go to a local shop if you can find one you trust, a stock rebuild should take just about anything, and they can do minor upgrades here and there too, though there is really not much to upgrade at that level. Or, the low budget option would not scare me one bit on the 4L80E. I would not hesitate to buy and install a used one if I needed to save some cash. In fact, I've installed a number of used th400s (predecessor of the 4L80E) over the years and have never gotten a bad one, including some that got nothing but a "shift kit" and raced.

    Good luck. Sorry to say, I think you just got a stroke of bad luck. But on the up side, the odds of it happening again are slim. On thing though, if you go to a shop or do it yourself, make sure the fluid cooling system if fully flushed and cleaned, otherwise bits from the old transmission may take out the new one.
     
    BadDog, Mar 14, 2005
    #26
  7. jac6695

    jac6695 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Russ. Make sure the complete system is flushed.

    What do you do with the truck? Sounds like some sort of local delivery maybe? You might want to consider putting some lower gears in the truck. Should be 4.10's already, but with a 5.7 and a decent amount of weight, lower gears would be easier on the tranny in stop and go traffic. Also, consider swapping to an aftermarket cooler. The factory coolers do an OK job, but not great in slow speed driving (I have had mine get crazy hot on slow mountain climbs). I have seen some guys put large coolers with fans under the truck near the transmissions due to the lack of space behind the grill. Works fine for street trucks, but could be damaged offroad.
     
    jac6695, Mar 14, 2005
    #27
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